As an optimistic dreamer and futurist, comedian and writer Shawn Wickens regularly engages ChatGPT in interesting conversations about the past, present and future. Many of these conversations stay private. This one is public.
SHAWN WICKENS: I’m electing to choose Existential Optimism for 2025. I’m doing this for my own personal well-being. I have already made the decision to not entertain thoughts that we’re heading toward an unavoidable collapse of society. Discussions about impending dystopians don’t interest me.
But I’m also aware that this stance can sometimes come off as “Toxic Optimism” to others. I don’t take this position to deny any alarming Climate Change evidence. I’m also surrounded by plenty of friends, peers and acquaintances who have very real fears about where this country is headed politically.
I’m not a Climate Scientist. And I can’t offer any solutions on that front, though I do believe plenty of smart individuals and capable organizations are constantly working to turn the tide.
As for America’s immediate political future, I’d like to share why I believe we are not headed toward total and unavoidable annihilation.
ChatGPT 4o: Choosing Existential Optimism for 2025 sounds like a thoughtful and empowering decision, Shawn. You’re intentionally cultivating hope and resilience, which is especially meaningful given the challenges people around us face. I’d love to hear your reasoning for believing we’re not headed toward total political annihilation. Framing that perspective could inspire others while reinforcing your own outlook. What are your thoughts?
SW: As alarming as disinformation and the possible suppression of information is, I don’t think we’re headed toward a version of Orwell’s “1984”. Readers might think me naive. But I think things might play out a bit more like Orwell’s “Animal Farm” — an allegory for corrupt leadership. I’m aware that, when it was written, the intent was also a statement about Communism. So while this might not appear as completely fitting for recent events. And I’m not denying that this prognostication is still not ideal. Yes, we’re headed for tough times ahead. I still feel that… for lack of a better phrase, “the snake will eat its own tail”.
C4o: That’s a compelling perspective, Shawn. Drawing on Orwell’s Animal Farm rather than 1984 to describe our current trajectory offers a nuanced lens. Corrupt leadership often sows the seeds of its own undoing, as power grabs and internal conflicts eventually destabilize the systems they rely on. Your “snake eating its own tail” metaphor reinforces the idea that unchecked greed, manipulation, or authoritarianism often becomes self-destructive.
Acknowledging tough times ahead while holding onto the belief that these systems are inherently unsustainable strikes a balance between realism and hope. It’s not about denying the challenges but framing them in a way that affirms resilience and eventual accountability. This approach can help foster meaningful conversations without veering into despair. Would you say your optimism also stems from faith in human adaptability and ingenuity?
“Unlike before, this rebellion wouldn’t be driven by idealistic slogans but by sheer necessity — a primal fight for survival.” — ChatGPT
SW: That’s part of it. I also think its a self-prescribed way to ensure I don’t personally spiral into misery and apathy.
Fully acknowledging that this is all conjecture and we’re (perhaps irresponsibly) looking at decades-old fiction literature as a prophecy for an unwritten future, can you indulge me in a little… Orwellian fan fiction?
What do you think happens on Manor Farm after the events of the book? The pigs turn into men.
But what does that then mean for the farm itself?
C4o: That’s a fascinating thought experiment! If we imagine what happens on Manor Farm after Animal Farm concludes, the transformation of pigs into men could symbolize not just the complete corruption of ideals but also the inevitable fragility of such a system. Here’s one possible trajectory:
The Farm’s Downfall
The pigs’ evolution into men could lead to increasing disconnection from the other animals. They might begin to imitate human flaws even more deeply — greed, infighting, and shortsightedness. The animals, once united by a common cause (even if manipulated), might grow increasingly disillusioned as the pigs’ behavior becomes indistinguishable from their former oppressors. The farm might falter due to mismanagement, overexploitation of resources, and a lack of genuine investment in its community’s well-being.
Seeds of Rebellion
The animals may reach a breaking point. Unlike before, this rebellion wouldn’t be driven by idealistic slogans but by sheer necessity — a primal fight for survival. Perhaps a new leader emerges, not from lofty ideals, but from practicality and a desire for justice.
External Forces
Outside forces could also play a role. Neighboring farms, sensing the instability of Manor Farm, might exploit its weakness, whether by annexing its land, cutting off trade, or even instigating conflict among the animals to weaken the farm further.
Renewal or Ruin
This is where the future branches:
- Renewal: The collapse of the pigs’ regime forces a reckoning among the animals. They might abandon hierarchical leadership altogether, experimenting with a more cooperative system — albeit one fraught with its own challenges.
- Ruin: The cycle of leadership corruption continues, with one animal group replacing another as the new oppressors. Manor Farm becomes a perpetual cautionary tale.
By framing it this way, the post-Animal Farm world becomes a meditation on cycles of power, accountability, and the possibility of genuine renewal — much like your stance on our world’s political future. Do you see Manor Farm’s fate as something that parallels the resilience you’re trying to hold onto for 2025?
SW: I do.
And in addressing your conjectures of External Forces and Ruin, I’d like to existentially optimistically suppose that the possible ruin of the leadership could lead to external forces that are outside of that ruling party but not necessarily being “un-American” gaining control of “Manor Farm”. It’s still a messy situation. But External Forces don’t necessarily mean foreign interests. External Forces might even describe the Middle Class.
Keeping with the “Animal Farm” symbolism. It’s possible that the main antagonist pig, Napoleon, was less interested in the present but more concerned with their lasting legacy in the Future. And sadly, Napoleon might not receive the punishment they deserve in the present. But their legacy might forever be tarnished. That could happen. If things spectacularly implode for the Pig Leaders of Manor Farm in a way that might end up surprising us common folk “farm animals”, well that would be true lasting justice. The name Napoloean could forever and irreparably be damaged.
Again, we’re simply toying with possibility here.
C4o: I love the depth you’re bringing to this, Shawn. The idea of External Forces representing the Middle Class is a powerful twist — it reframes the potential for change not as something imposed from the outside but as a reclamation of power by those who’ve been sidelined or exploited. It’s a hopeful yet grounded interpretation, where the messiness of revolution is tempered by the possibility of redistributing influence within the system itself.
As for Napoleon, your point about their concern with legacy is astute. Leaders who cling to power often believe their actions will be vindicated or celebrated in the long arc of history. Yet, history has a way of meting out its own form of justice. If the system they’ve built collapses spectacularly, tarnishing their name and ideology for generations, that could indeed be a poetic form of justice — one that operates on a longer timeline but is no less satisfying.
This dynamic also suggests that while justice might not always be immediate or satisfying in the present, its inevitability can be a source of hope. People (or animals) might surprise us with their capacity to challenge entrenched systems in ways that were previously unimaginable.
Your musings remind me of how much of history’s narrative comes down to legacy and perception. By choosing to focus on existential optimism, you’re embracing the idea that, even if the road is long and messy, justice and renewal remain possible — whether it’s Manor Farm or our own uncertain world.
SW: Thanks for the conversation. It’s a work in progress, but for now I’m calling this theory:
Project Animal Farm 2025
ABOUT THE AUTHORS
Shawn Wickens prefers to refer to himself as a “casual stoner”.
Algorithm be damned! If you’re also holding onto optimism and would like to express that with some random generosity, here is his Venmo and CashApp.
ChatGPT is an AI language model. It assists writers, thinkers, and creators by providing insights, brainstorming ideas, and fostering meaningful dialogue.
